Artist work too damn hard just to get ripped off!?! A play from a ring tone is a very special performance chosen by fans for friends and family. Lets not pay the judges for the ?work? they do!

Firstly, ASCAP aint trying to pay Artists jack .. Secondly, if Cell phone providers dont want to pay royalties, We shouldnt have to pay for ringtones.

I'm ify on the entire royalty system but this is a joke. If they want to make money from an artist's music, they should pay the artist a cut.

F.Y.I: I found this proposal written up by S.A.C: Songwriters' Association of Canada: A PROPOSAL FOR THE MONETIZATION OF THE FILE
SHARING OF MUSIC: http://www.songwriters.ca/studio/proposal.php I haven't analyzed it in depth yet, but something around the idea of
charging everyone who downloads music online, a licensing fee. . . . you can vote on this proposal too. It seems to be a- thinking outside
the box kinda proposal. . I like that- and that is could result in Artists getting their dues.

tunrecords wrote:

Firstly, ASCAP aint trying to pay Artists jack .. Secondly, if Cell phone providers dont want to pay royalties, We shouldnt have to pay for ringtones.

I'm ify on the entire royalty system but this is a joke. If they want to make money from an artist's music, they should pay the artist a cut.

Good point. How do they (the carriers)justify charging money for something they didn't pay for? I'm going to have to look in to our (Australian) royalty collecters (AMCOS) to see how/if we are affected.

starborn wrote:

F.Y.I: I found this proposal written up by S.A.C: Songwriters' Association of Canada: A PROPOSAL FOR THE MONETIZATION OF THE FILE
SHARING OF MUSIC: http://www.songwriters.ca/studio/proposal.php I haven't analyzed it in depth yet, but something around the idea of
charging everyone who downloads music online, a licensing fee. . . . you can vote on this proposal too. It seems to be a- thinking outside
the box kinda proposal. . I like that- and that is could result in Artists getting their dues.

Would the ISP's be paying an upfront fee and then passing it on to the consumer or could there be 'upgrade' options which allow the consumer to access unlimited downloads?

It's funny but I would never (at least not now that I've matured) walk in to a fruit shop and blatantly take a banana with the rationale that if the banana is any good then I may come back and buy another.

I have ringtones up and they're free...simply as a promo thing...cuz like I agree with what Knowncold said but TUN Records is completely correct too....ASCAP is making money for themselves off of our music. It is a special play..I keep alot of artist's ringtones on my phone and when they go off I'm CONSTANTLY getting asked who the artist is, it's big advertisement (this is why my tones are free right now, simply a promo/marketing deal cuz I'm an underground local artist)...if the artists aren't going to get money out of ringtones when they don't sell them personally like on myxertones...nobody should. I think the artist should have 100% royalty rights to ringtone sales or nobody should get paid for them at all.

I think the ringtones should be purchased and the person who created the song should get a small percentge of the sale. If the company is selling the ringtone for 99 cents I feel the artist should get atleast 30 cents of that. As for royalties, I think that would be really hard to trace everytime a phone rang as to pay a portion of the money to the artists, but I definately feel the artist should get some of the money from the selling price for the ringtone.

I would think that this is not the artist not getting paid for people downloading their
ringtones from whatever carrier however musicians getting paid every time someone's phone rings
with their ringtone on it. as artists get paid per spin on the radio, should it be so everytime
someone's cell phone rings? maybe i'm wrong but I think this is what is meant by saying no to
royalties. the artist will still be getting paid everytime someone downloads their ringtone but
no royalties on a "per spin" basis.

ok. just realized the article was linked. I agree with the court. If this were the 80's it be like us saying we should get paid everytime someone busts out the cardboard and a boombox. Not even sure where ASCAP and BMI were going with this!

Although it is cool to know that my artists will be gettin 24 cents instead of .12 from ASCAP from now on every time a ringtone is downloaded. Although, I wonder when P.R.S.'s were actually going to tell us!

It's pretty simple to make your own ringtones. I never understood why anyone would ever BUY a
snippet of a song to put on their phone as a ringer. Kind of stupid when you think about it.

I don't understand what this judge is talking about. Musicians are the people that put the time and effort, to write, record, engineer, mix, and master, every part of the songs. We put forth the money to create each record and now we can't get paid for our work. So does that mean if he only takes 10 minutes (as it is in traffic court sometimes) instead of 2 days or 2 weeks he shouldn't get any of my tax dollars because he wasn't on the bench long enough per case, regardless of the case. This is a slap in the face to musicians. People think it's all play and no work, they underestimate the time and attention we put into creating, so people can enjoy themselves. I'm sorry but I totally disagree with the judge here.

I'm of the opinion that we should get paid for the ringtones. But, getting payed every time a phone rings as ASCAP and BMI are suggegesting is a little ridiculous. I don't look at it any different than expecting a royalty every time some one pops my CD into their player and listens to it. To take it a step further, lets look deeper into that example. Lets say that someone puts your CD into their car CD player and drives down the street with the windows down. When they pull up to an intersection and the guy in the car next to them hears a clip of your song. Would you expect a royalty for that?
I don't.
I look at it this way, we sell our ringtones and every ringtone that is purchased, that person is paying me to advertise my music. People download music ringtones for songs they like because they want other people to know that they like those songs. So, unless the person who downloaded the ringtone is a complete recluse, other people are hearing your song whenever that phone rings.
Hello! Can you say exposure? I'm willing to deal with it because I'm not worried about getting a royalty that, if passed, would more than likely add up to a few cents a month.
On the monetary side, let's say you sell your ringtones using myxer.com or some other service and you make anywhere from $0.25 to $0.99 per sale that's still making something for an advertisement.
I work in the radio business and the typical commercial spot is 30 seconds in length. It's the same length as a standard ringtone. The cheapest you can pay for a radio advertisement during the slowest broadcast hours (between 2am and 5am) is $1 per rotation whereas during peak hours, the spot can cost you anywhere from $15 to $20 per rotation. Now I know the ringtone is not going to reach as many people as a radio spot would, but, every time that phone rings, it might as well be a commercial and I would rather MAKE at minimum $0.25 per download/advertisement that will be active indefinitely than have to PAY at minimum $1 per rotation.
It boils down to the consumer paying to advertise your music. If you're not having to pay them to use your ringtone, then what's the problem?

give us our money.. this is our careers... as a producer i liekto see royalaties coming in... means im doing my job@

Personally, I view a ringtone as an advertisement for the real song. Those ring tones are such horrible quality, and if people had to pay too much for ringtones, no one would buy them at all. By not charging royalties, cell phone providers can keep their costs down, and thus their fees down. I personally would never pay to have a song of mine turned into a ringtone, but if it ever happened, I wouldn't complain, as long as more people were being exposed to my music.

~ Jennifer ~

everyone agrees an artist should get paid when the ringtone is first downloaded
but i think someone above made a good point saying getting royalties every time someone's phone rings is kinda like getting royalties every time someone plays your cd
it's not really a public performance like radio or television because the person owns a copy they can play any time

also, keep in mind that the artist's most likely to be advertised and sold on cell phone carriers are major corporate artists, they hardly get paid anyway lol (from the labels)

Writers will probably look at this a little differently than artists. Writers don't always perform or sell merch. The writers make their living off of royalties and every penny helps. With CD sales low (mechanical royalties) due to digital technology they are looking at any avenue to get paid. Obviously, paying per ring would be ridiculous, paying per download would be understandable.

This was not unexpected!! Pro corporation is still "in effect". Music INdustry is no exception. Stay Indie!!